The Future of Nudism – Part Three

Oh my… It’s been exactly one year since we’ve written The Future Of Nudism Part One and Part Two. It seems like ages ago, we still had to start our adventure around the world at the time.
Today we believe that we can say that we’re much more experienced when it comes to nudism and naturism. Over the last months we’ve been spending time at nudist spots in three different continents and have gathered so many new insights about how nudism and naturism is practiced all over the world. We’ve learned who nudists are and why they like to get naked. And we’ve learned about the many opportunities for nudists like campings, nude resorts, nudist events, nudist clubs and so on. And yet, we’re surprised how accurate our ideas back then still are.


Naturist federations need to connect

We wonder whether it has something to do with power, prestige, different ideologies or with something we can’t exactly point at the moment, but federations over the world seem to fail at working together. An example of this are AANR and TNS, the two major naturist/nudist associations in the United States. Both have their own ideologies and instead of working together in order to make the naked lifestyle stronger, they compete with each other. One would expect that they are holding on to their ideologies in order to serve their members, but interestingly, many of their member resorts are often affiliated with both. Which makes us wonder… why the need to compete? Nudism is a small part of society, why divide it even more?


Let us give you a comparison. The amateur theatre community is full of dedicated people who spend several months each year preparing a play that will be performed for a couple of days. But there is a lot of internal competition and prestige. Everybody likes to be the leading role, the princess or the hero and although every character in a play is equally important, some feel left out when they have to keep taking up the smaller roles and decide to start their own theatre group. One group becomes two, two become four and who knows where this will end. Unfortunately, the amount of spectators doesn’t grow equally and few of them have the intention to see a different play every other day. While group 1 used to have 1000 spectators, group 1A and 1B only get 500-600 each… You see where we’re going with this. In the end, it’s just not worth the effort anymore and you end up with a bunch of disappointed people, who just wanted to play theatre.
We often see a similar thing happening in the nudist environment, it becomes so fractioned and the different groups or clubs who do have a dedicated board struggle to attract new members.

The Future of nudism and naturism

New Cambium intext 1
Luckily, there’s another way, which we’ve noticed in southern California. We’ve been in touch with three different clubs: Southern California Naturist Association (SCNA), Naturists in the Orange County (NitOC) and The Camping Bares. Each of them have their own members and organise their own events, but the boards often get together and engage their members to participate at the events of the other clubs as well.
A nudist club is not a football club and there’s no need to compete with each other. If there is any competition, it should be on a friendly basis. Why not organise inter club volleyball tournaments or pudding fights or whatever other activity and bring nudists together instead of separating them?


Stop holding on to the terms nudism and naturism

The other day we were attending a naked yoga class at Naked in Motion in New York and to our huge surprise several of the other participants weren’t nudists. Or at least, didn’t consider themselves nudists. When we asked one of the girls whether she was a nudist before starting to attend the naked yoga classes she said “Oh no! I did go to a naked spa and to a nude beach once in a while, but I was certainly not a nudist”. This comment left us speechless (which doesn’t happen very often) and by the time we thought about asking her what her definition for nudism was, she was already engaged in another conversation. But we believe we understand what she was trying to say.
For too many people, nudism still means being part of a club or federation, where you have to stick to an enormous list of rules and volunteer to cut the hedge and do all kinds of other chores.


We noticed a similar thing when we went naked at Deep Creek Hot Springs in California some days ago with NitOC. Deep Creek is one of the few public places around Los Angeles where nudity is actually allowed. Other than our group of about twenty nudists there were several other visitors going naked at the place, often in their twenties or thirties, who were not member of any club or federation, they just liked to be naked and didn’t want to join a club to be able to do so.

The Future of nudism and naturism

Maestra Banner

Think out of the box when it comes to nudism

Nudism is a lot about getting out of your comfort zone, we all remember our first time when we got naked among others. And yet we’ve been able to create ourselves a new zone, at some club or campground, hidden behind a huge fence and we are reluctant again to get out of there.
And yet there are so many opportunities and so many cool things to do, you wouldn’t believe it. We previously mentioned naked yoga, which is booming at the moment around the world, but there is more, think about naked hikes and naked running contests or for the more adventurous even naked bungee jumps.


We believe a lot in the future of non-landed nudist clubs (those who don’t have their own property), because they are forced to think out of the box. They rent hotels or swimming pools or bowling alleys so their members can enjoy activities which they otherwise would never be able to experience in the nude. Amazing initiatives, but why not take this one step further and completely open the doors by not restricting access to members only? Disneyland might be one step too far, but imagine a naked day at Six Flags or in a section of some national park…

The Future of nudism and naturism

Talking about national parks, we recently saw in the news that Donald Trump is taking back resources from the American park rangers (Yes, we’re talking a lot about America, but that’s most of the info we’ve been getting lately). Very sad news when it comes to the future of nature conservation but an opportunity for nudists. Nudists are often concerned about nature, so why not getting in touch with the park offices and offer our help conserving the place? In exchange for opportunities to spend some time there naked or to make parts clothing optional of course? This doesn’t count uniquely for the USA by the way, everywhere in the world we could apply such a strategy.
Stuff to think about.

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32 thoughts on “The Future of Nudism – Part Three”

  1. Only in America can we turn on the TV to watch people being killed and maimed but God forbid you should see a naked person. We have to be comfortable with our bodies and realize that we aren’t perfect to shed our clothes and say “this is who we are”.

  2. Our ultimate objective should be to make nudity just another fashion choice. To that end, we fight for free beaches, clothes free areas and so on. To that end, we participate in WNBR and do the Bay to Breakers nude and maybe do nude theater.

    There is a lot of ‘don’t rock the boat” sentiment. There is a lot of closet nudism out there and it is easier to stay in a large and comfortable closet than it is to expand the envelope.

    Fact is that there are a lot more clothing optional people out there who aren’t involved in anything organized and wouldn’t want to be.

    Fact is that there is pitifully little interface between textiled and nudist people. We have our ghettos – er – resorts and a tiny number of natural locations where we won’t get busted. We need to expand those areas. We need to desensitize textiles to the presence of nudity using every legal tool at our disposal.

    But there remains the fact that the turtle cannot move forward without sticking its neck out. I think that is where the big divide is.

  3. I love your ideas. I was a member of ASA and then AANR and a non-landed club. I quit going because of rules and limited vision that translated into limited naked opportunities. They wouldn’t publish the address for house party events in their news letter because someone might find out. Members had to phone for directions. One time I drove 2 hours to the city to attend an event and tried to phone for directions. They had logged their computer into a dial up web site and tied up their phone line all afternoon. We wasted 2 more hours hanging around town trying to phone for directions and then drove 2 hours home. Not happy members.

    But why not just open nude events to anyone who shows up and wants to go naked? We would go to the hot springs and always find naked people enjoying the public springs without being club members.

    I dropped out of club nudism some years ago now. I’m not a “nudist” any more. I don’t do the club thing. I don’t accept their long list of rules. I don’t carry or sit on a towel. I go naked all the time. I hike naked. I meet other people while naked. I get seen by my neighbors naked. I just live naked as much as possible. I drive naked from coast to coast. But I don’t limit myself to supporting naked clubs and resorts.

    Often the clubs and resorts are enemies of free range naked people. They have a vested interest in preventing free range nudism and forcing people to pay to “vacation” at their resorts. They big nudist groups are all about “nude vacations” where they get paid, and not nude living.

    We need to be public. We need to demand human rights to our bodies. We need to allow non-member visitors to events. Come one, come all. Go naked.

    • Bob you make a lot of good points. AANR is at the top of our list of what have you done for the average Joe and his family who want to be nudist ?? Many parks and clubs now ask you to join AANR before they will allow you as a member !!

  4. As someone who has long advocated for this type of change, and received push back from old octegenarians at clubs who are afraid of anything outside their narrow perspectives, I can appreciate all your efforts. In addition to everything you’ve mentioned, is the lack of interest in clubs by young people who are forced to conform to old people’s old way of thinking of what it means to have nekkit freedom. The younger more liberal generations are far less modest than their religious conservative “elders” who often make the rules at clubs. Included in those rules, is body jewelry/tattoo restrictions, acceptable dance moves, and even rushing to punish any youth with a natural erection that they don’t immediately cover up. 20 and 30somethings just don’t give a damn about those silly rules, and when forced to submit, they go recreate elsewhere, taking their $$$ elsewhere, and/or just going to a beach/home where there aren’t any rules.

    I can give you many dozens of examples of such incidents where myself or friends have had something along these lines happen to them. Its no big deal for large groups of young people to all grind together on a dance floor, and none of them care if someone happens to start flaggin’ a woody in the moment. It isn’t perceived as sexual, just someone relaxing and letting loose without a care. But that example sets off alarm bells that ohhh no some males body started acting out of control! Quick do something! Or, “Ohh no, those kids have genital piercings and tattoos! That stuff is banned here!”, Or “Hey look they are all hugging and kissing in public! Think of the children!” It goes on and on.

    I have a feeling nudism will come roaring back in a decade.. Now that we’ve had 20 years of die offs and another 10 to remove the last vestiges of old gray hairs trying to push “their version” of what it means to enjoy life au natural.

    • I’m not sure, RealityCheck, if it is a question of old people vs. young people. I’m old and I’ve been fighting prudery among nudists for decades. Often its the young moralists who are against change.

    • I think u might be a bit to harsh ..
      No offence but in 90% of the time a woody is cause by a sexual touch,feeling,vision whatever…
      Having whatever of that in mind ,i dunno if u find it ok for like, kids at a club or beach or so ,to see/watch man with hardons goofing around or even them selfs? You`d wanna consider that as a new normal?
      And dont forget, u`ll be a “gray hair” or no hair ,as well one day, would u like if ppl would be talking about u in such way?

      • @Iceman: Men with erections are NORMAL men. I object strongly to the anti-men prejudice (bigotry) that feigns offense by the sight of a normal man who happens to be thinking about women or was dancing at the club social, etc. Objecting to male erections is bigoted and offensive in my opinion. Its also another part of the usual nudist club rules that I and many others object to. They preach “body acceptance” but they don’t accept normal men’s normal body functions. Its an offensive, bigoted, and hypocritical part of AANR’s misandry.

        • Ah erections… probably the most often discussed topic when it comes to naturism. We agree with iceman that most of the time erections are caused by something sexual (a touch, a thought,…). Although some men keep saying that it’s something uncontrollable, we have seen thousands of naked men in a social environment during the last year and we can honestly say that the number of erections we’ve seen are very very few. Maybe for some men it’s something uncontrollable, but the majority of nudist men doesn’t seem to find it difficult to keep their stuff down.

          But even if it’s something caused by a something sexual, is there a need to hide it? Because just as Bob says, it’s part of our anatomy and how our body works. Would things be different if women would also have physical signs if they are turned on? Most probably. But that’s not the case. And now it comes to etiquette and politeness. Farting is also something natural and sometimes it’s not controllable either, but yet it’s not really appreciated if someone does so. And certainly not if it happens regularly.

          And to go even further, sex is also something natural. So why not allowing sex in nudist places? Since nudism is about non-sexual nudity and since an erection is considered something sexual, we believe that the current nudist etiquette is correct when it comes to erections. There’s no witch hunt, it can happen, but if it happens you’re expected to be discrete about it.
          It’s especially not appreciated if a man gets an erection while talking to someone else’s partner and it’s certainly not appreciated if it happens when he’s talking to kids.

          A funny story about this: We know a gay guy who owns a nudist resort and he’s got a pretty good trick for this. Whenever a straight man gets an erection and doesn’t intent to hide it, he starts complementing him. “Oh how beautiful, I love this,…”. Works every time 🙂

          • Nick this last part hahahah ! 🙂
            Buttttttttt….u didnt understand me well .. first of all i was refering to RealityCheck not Bob so i dunno why Bob replied to me hah ,but whatever.
            I was refering to RC as it looks to me like he wants that to become a new norm.
            Nick u also just said that its natrual and that it can happen but ur expected to hide it … u kinda went both ways on this in the same post.. first u said its natrual and ok ,and then u have to hide it…then i can ask why? If it is natrual just as being naked is ,why hide it then? U can pretty much hide it when u have jeans on ,but not when naked,and if all of that is natrual then why hide it?
            Therefore refering to what RC wrote, i think he`d prefer it to be a new norm ,where u actually dont have to hide it,no matter what happens whos participates or who is around ,or tho whom it happens.
            And Bob btw .. why does it have to be just men getting one thinking about women?
            Cause if we wanna talk that way, rather we like it or not agree with it or not ,all kinds of thinkings are basicly natrual.
            For them being normal or lawfull or not, is a matter of how we shaped things to be.
            Law is something a man/human made up , and normal is something that we can see every day ,ex.. sadly well .. terrorist attacks in Europe became normal,so it doesnt have to be good or something u like ,to call it normal.
            But of course ,sexual things and war are 2 diff things of course lol ,i didnt wanna compare those two ,but the aspect of what the word normal means.

          • Nick, you are so right. Owning/managing nudist resorts for 25 years I have found that it is only singe men that have the erection “issue.” Never guys in relationships as they would never want to embarrass their wife/gf. Not all activities are for everyone. If you have no self control, practice being nude at home with your so until you do have self control.

  5. Rules of etiquette will always be with us.

    As you get older you gain control over having erections. By the time you’ve hit your mid20s, it ought to be completely under control. (If it isn’t, time to grow up.) Boys who grow up in nudist families have it under control without it ever becoming a problem. So it is not an involuntary reflex.

    If you are really worried about it, there are groups of nudists (mostly gay males and nudist swingers) who don’t care. Every group has a right to set the ground rules for participation as they want. Start your own group if you don’t like other groups rules.

    Having an erection and displaying it is considered lewd behavior and a felony under California law. Simply being nude is not even illegal. Now, imagine you are a general membership club. You have someone wandering around with an erection. You find the most of the women and many of the guys are uncomfortable with it. People with children are the most unhappy of all. And it is a state felony to boot. If you want to stay in business, what rule would you set?

    What you do in your own space and time and with your friends is entirely up to you. What you do in someone else’s space and time is subject to their rules.

    • I understand what u are saying ,but what if its a public beach? Or not even a public beach .. just a random place where ppl get nude …
      You mentioned the Ca law .. thats exactly what i was talking about .. being nude is not against the law blabla .. u get my point? Im not sure if its the law that should tell us how we behave ,i mean as long as no1 will die cause they see someone with a hardon.. i dunno why it would be considered as something “illegal” .. thats just stoopid ,and no offence, but not every1 is from California or USA. Besides how come having an errection is lewd but having sex or porn isnt? .. makes no sence.
      As far as the “control” stuff goes ..oh.. totaly dont agree with you…
      I do agree that old nudies ,old as in the time they are nudies not their age, are of course most likely less to be seen with a hardon ,i bet that is true as it can be.
      But to say that one can have a hardon on comand is pure bullshit bro … and it has nothing to do with “growing up”.

      • Exactly right, @Iceman. Erections are controlled by an autonomic nervous system that functions by biological and emotional response, and is NOT under any conscious control. The misandrists who allege that some men have conscious control demonstrate both their ignorance of human anatomy and their prejudice against men.

        Nobody ever tells women to go hide their erect nipples. The pervasive bigotry against men is a big part of why so many young people and older decent people have turned away from AANR and other money and prejudice based organizations that Nick and Lins have well described in their article.

        Several of the above ignorant prejudicial comments demonstrate just the very problems that Nick and Lins have described.

  6. I am also disappointed that “what about the children” is invoked as an excuse to attack men who have an erection. That “protect the children” canard is the same lame foolishness that anti-nudes have thrown in the face of nudism for far too long. Nudist organizations all claim that seeing naked humans is educational and beneficial for children, but here we have seen the real anti-men prejudiced “nudists” using the same old tired “children” canard to bash men.

    • What i wanted to say is that , i understand different ppl see things in a different way, but you know its like .. you just cant say , being nude is natrual and tell the textiles (i am one if u didnt know haha) that they are ignorant ,assholes and such ,and say u are tollerant lets say .. and on the other hand ,u will bash ppl with a wood, to talk about the least bad thing right.. cause well we know that that is natrual too, whatever the reason it caused it, so to me its like selecting a benefit from a statemant..
      Of course one can say , ya ur right Ice,but where do we stop? And thats what i ask as well ,cause i dont like selective justice or norms ,like ,this is gonna be normal cause i like it kinda things .. also dont like mixed things, i prefer it black or white, either yes or either no.

      • You make an excellent point concerning the “natural” thing, but maybe you’re focusing a bit too much on it. Yes, we believe that the naked body is its natural state and that this is a reason why we think nudism is a positive thing. But it’s certainly not the single one reason and it doesn’t mean that we completely follow the way of nature. To say it a bit rude: to defecate in the woods is also a very natural thing and yet most nudists prefer a regular toilet.

        The nudist society has agreed on a certain set of rules a long time ago and non-sexual nudity is one of them. But what’s the definition of “sexuality”? Some will say that having an erection is sexual, others will say that they can’t help it. The current consensus is that an erection is seen as something sexual and thus something that should be avoided. it is what it is, it is a rule or guideline or whatever you want to call it and people will take offence if it happens. Is that right or wrong? We’ll leave that in the middle.

        In our modern times, nudism has already been split up in several subcategories. Some say that the link to nature is the most important, some say that it’s just about the joy of being naked, some say that it’s all about the social factor, some say it’s completely non-sexual and others say that sex should be part of it.
        We could divide further between those who think that an erection is okay and those who think not, but where will this end?

        • I know, i understand, thats kinda what i was saying as well in a way , but i still say i prefer when things are more clear then in the middle , cause when ur in the middle, ur kinda in a no mans land, makes u look like u dont have an oppinion on a sertan subject.
          I personaly dont think there are sub nudism categories,as there is no sub textile categories.
          There are only ppl that prefer this or that or this&that ,but thats not the problem, the problem to me is that when one persons uses the word natrual to say that… ,hey its natrual to be nude, but at same time he/she will condemn ,something else thats natrual ,something that he/she doesnt prefer/like.
          So to me when our friend Fred said that hardons can be controled or started to talk about laws ,like its illegal to have a hardon like jesus… i understand that hes from the States, and ppl there are,well .. no offence ,but “trained” to think in a sertan way .. but that dont mean all ppl think that way ,or maybe the others are just being honest, and not afraid to say what they think ,rather then being moraly fake?
          Lemme tell a short story i read in a comment in an article about being nude.
          There was a female somewhere in Crotaia that was always nude on her balcony, like a commie appartment, im sure Nick Lins ,u have seen such in Croatia .. sooo .. some dude was complaning about that and such …and when i was reading a comment about it one was something like this …
          The person that commented said that he or she .. was in Paris one day i think.. and was on a tour bus or so .. and there were some Americans on it as well, and while they were rolling on the streets, there was a commercial shooting taking place, where there was an almost nude as u can get woman involved in shooting, and the person that wrote the comment said that some Americans were soo “shocked” with what they saw, that they wanted to sue the agency or whoever, for sexual assult! lol
          To end it, i dunno who said this, maybe no1 famous, maybe just a comment somehwere i read ,but i kinda like it… and it goes , technicly nothing is illegal , until humans make something to be.

          • Sure there are subcategories among textiles. Based on their clothes alone there are hipsters and snobs and skaters and punks and what else. And then there are subcategories based on opinions, political ideas, race, the music we listen to. We categorise ourselves all the time.
            And sure, we may be called hypocrites when it comes to the use of the word “natural”, but even that is purely based on opinion. What is “natural”? What is our reference? Ancient people? Animals? Along the way we have evolved and history and culture have just become parts of who we are, of how we consider our natural self. But we haven’t all evolved in the same way so there are different opinions.
            And sure, sometimes we do use these words to prove our right although we don’t always follow the rules. It’s like how we like to see ourselves as environmental aware people because we don’t waste too much water and recycle our trash, but we will take our car to the shop instead of our bicycle on a cold rainy day.
            And the Americans… that’s a stereotype. We’ve already spent a couple of weeks in the States and we can tell you that they are surely not all like that. But of course every stereotype has a basis of truth…

          • Pretty good points Nick, but ill still stick to what i said.
            And as for the Americans, ya i understand that not ALL are like what i described, but the fact is that thats they way that are “raised” “tought” to be ,by media, society .. thats why i said that, i follow American news channels cnn cbs nbc .. or other famous pages that i check from time to time, i can surely see the .. well… i like to say things as they are ,as i see it ,so i`ll say it haha, brainwashing ,i dont like being politicaly correct ,so yes i know, not all are like that ,but most most are. And i dont even mind that ,if there werent for two things … it those values if we wanna call them that way, are being forced upon others ,like its slowly done to Europe, and if there woudlnt be such hypocrisy ,as noone minds seing half or totaly naked “influencers” on Insta or music videos, that are as i said naked, have lirics to songs that are .. u know My neck My back .. song? … and lets not lie ,90% of that is coming from America.

        • Personally I think displaying an erection around other people in a nonsexual situation is usually bad manners. Some groups don’t mind while most will object. It is the sort of thing that could get one shunned if you did nothing about it. It would be unusual for an experienced adult nudist male to have this problem but I won’t say it can never happen. Easily dealt with if it does.

          It would also be bad manners to start cursing out the waiter, to smell badly, to not sit on a towel when using someone else’s furniture, to chew loudly with your mouth open or to blatantly stare at someone.

          Bad manners should not be illegal. Aesthetics and legality ought not to be mixed.

          Manners aren’t law. They are social customs designed to make widely differing people comfortable in social settings. It is bad manners to wear clothing if the property owner says nudity is required and you can be asked to leave.

          In California, there is no statewide law against nudity. There is a statewide law against lewd behavior. I can assure you that displaying an erection will be considered lewd behavior in most jurisdictions whether you were nude or simply unzipped to let it all hang out.

          Except that it depends on the jurisdiction and its policies. Every year in the Bare to Breakers there are a couple of wonkers primping – showing off their woody and usually using rings and Viagra and their hands to keep it that way. City of SF does not arrest these people.

          If you tried the same thing in the WNBR-LA you would be ejected from the event and arrested immediately for lewd conduct. I always recommend against doing something that risks getting you registered as a sex offender. Very bad juju, that.

        • Well said, I’ve been looking for some sort of reality in writings about we who like to be naked. The division of hype and sensual talk promoting nudity separating voyerisem thru a Medea to real issues concerning nudity and the life style. Separating sexual nudity and natural nudity seems to be a fine line. Dispite the woman’s movement, I realized that we will never as men will be excepted fully to be free to be naked or be even able to wear a speedo or even a thong suit in public without some complaints. Years ago in America withour funny attitudes about men and nudity. A girl friend of mine let me in on some onsite of how women feel about our status as men. She said to me that she would never Merry a man that had better looking legs than her. That’s when I realized that no matter what women say about the modern attitude of equality of the sexes, they will always be the queens of the sexes and men just better coverup an shut up.?? I’m a nudist ?

    • I am with Nick and Lins. It is right that an erection is not always controllable and therefore it is impossible to make having one illegal. However it may make others, particularly women, feel sexualized, and therefore uncomfortable or even threatened, so it should really not be displayed where that might be the case. Perhaps an 18+ disco on the dance floor is a different thing completely from at a family friendly event. As for the ‘not in front of the children’ argument; well children have bodies themselves and can easily relate to adult nudity, but they certainly don’t have sex and don’t understand it at all. Most parents want to ensure that their child’s sex education is handled with care and was not forced to start on somebody else’s timescale by a display of hedonistic beach sex or a young stud’s proudly displayed party member

  7. There isn’t just one kind of American. I think we are quite spread across the spectrum. There is a large component of society who have integrated the “nudity is creepy/wrong/offensive” concept into their lives since they were old enough to walk. The localities where those people are concentrated will probably not have tolerant attitudes towards nudity any time soon.

    Ojai, CA had a World Naked Bike Ride. Some of the members were assaulted and the police did nothing. That is probably not a good place to put a lot of effort.

    OTOH, you have places like Portland where 10,000 people show up for a World Naked Bike Ride. That’s a promising place for further outreach. San Francisco has multiple nude events every year. Yet another promising place.

    Naturist rights share a lot with gay rights. Gays fought for decades, first against prohibition and then against discrimination. There are still places where gays are not welcome and I expect that will continue until we have another couple of generational changes. Naturism/nudism will probably have to struggle for much longer. We are a smaller percentage of the population than gays and have less inherent power to leverage with. Secondly – and most importantly – the naturist closet is far more comfortable than the gay closet. There is less of an urgent need among the clothes free crowd to actually do anything about it.

    • I can accept what u wrote but still ,ill say that whatever i said so far ,is the way the huge majority is in the States.
      Of course, some actually arent, but gonna pretend they are, and such.
      You see the funny thing is, as u said the rights .. thats kinda what i was talking about all along.. rights.. who do we need to ask for rights? Is it something u gain? DO u have to work for it? Or perhaps its something that doesnt even exist, only restrictions exist?
      I think its the second one, and eventho the end result is the same, the aproach towards looking at it is totaly different.
      As for gay and nude rights as u said.. well ,i dont think u can compare these too ,cause one is a choice, decision, the other one isnt.

    • Well said Fred.
      I note that San Francisco is one of the few places in California that has a city ordinance against being nude on the street (except at political events) and has frequent demonstrations against the ordinance. Likewise, Portland, Oregon, is one of the few places in Oregon with a city ordinance against being nude on the street (except at political events). Both places recognize that nudity which is part of “free speech” is acceptable and not hurting “the children.” But both places take away the fundamental human right to control our own bodies. The other notable exception to nude rights in Oregon is Lane County where the largest AANR club in Oregon is located. Allowing general nudity in Lane County would be bad for (AANR) business.

      You are also right, Fred, that most older nudists grew up with fences and “nude recreation” rather than nude lives. However there isn’t an urgent need among the “nude recreation” people to fight for general freedom, and the big nudist organizations have a money interest in maintaining general prohibition of body rights.

      • Sigh! So we do what we can with what we got.

        I still plan to participate in every nude friendly public event I can. I believe desensitization is important. We don’t need to push the envelope hard enough to end up in jail but I think we ought to take every advantage of every legality we can.

        California recently legalized personal use marijuana. It didn’t happen out of the blue. There was legislation in 1975 and 2010 and initiatives in 1996 and 2016 that slowly moved from decriminalization to legalization. I bring this up not as an endorsement of marijuana but as an example of how something that was prohibited for 80 years can eventually be legalized.

        Three things led to this. One was persistence. The fight to legalize started in the 60s and didn’t see full fruition for well over 50 years. The second was incrementalism. Each step did not lead to a catastrophe which made the next one possible. The third was generational change over *multiple* generations. Each successive generation was less worried that pot was going to destroy society and more aware of the costs of enforcement.

        As it turned out, the Federal threat of taking away Highway Trust funds from any state who legalized turned into a paper tiger. And tax revenues from legal sales are pouring in.

        This glacial shift finally reached the tipping point (in CA) when in 2016 a majority of people *who actually vote* came to favor legalization. The change could have happened earlier except that the real winner in most elections is apathy. Once simple possession of pot became a $100 fine (1975) and enforcement declined, pot users simply stopped caring. (However, the growers liked the price support that illegality of marijuana commerce provided.)

        In many respects being a nudie is rather like being gay. Many people think still social nudity is a potential sickness. I tell them to MYOB and do not associate with them and suddenly it isn’t a problem anymore. Legalizing pot didn’t make more smokers, it made more smokers secure enough to admit it. Removing legal discrimination against gays didn’t make more gays, either.

        Many nudists would be horrified if their neighbors and coworkers knew they were nudists, so the landed club with its amenities and privacy assurances will always be profitable – as long as it is well run. I forsee nudist clubs and cruises serving the same social purpose as gay businesses and organizations do today. Gay bars are more profitable today than 30 years ago. “Legalizing” gayness only increased their custom as more people came out and wanted to socialize with their own. Make something legal and more people are willing to admit to themselves that they are a part of what was legalized.

        Me? I got tired of the closet. Moven to LA and the closet wasn’t needed anymore. At least not for me. Some people with a public profile and persona they want to project still want their closet. That’s ok by me. Just don’t try to force me into a closet as well out of fear you’ll lose patrons.

        • Fred no offence, but once again , you are only talking about USA, i understand that in a way cause you are from there, but this subject is kinda universal so it cant be looked only from one Countrys or States perspective.
          And once again i must return to what i`ve said before .. you are talking about how gays or nudies gained some rights by protesting and being presistant ,how pot is legalized and stuff.. the quesiton is..who made all these things and many others illegal in the first place ? Its funny that one has to fight for something that already exists ,and is and was as long as man kind is, and everything else u can think of.
          Of course , i`ll have to exclude murder, stealing,fraud wich is stealing basicly, and thats about it pretty much .. everything else is basicly not illegal unless someone makes it to be.
          Moral of the story, just cause if you dont like something or agree with, that doesnt mean that it has to be illegal then.

          • Great point Iceman. At what point did some idiot decide to post laws which made not wearing clothes illegal? The problem is, although we now thankfully have laws in the UK which make it legal to walk naked through the woods and fields, and a police force which know not to arrest us for doing so, most of us don’t, and those that do usually choose their timing carefully. I salute you brave souls of non landed clubs who do this, but for me having some maiden aunt who just saw her first willy call the police on me, or a dog walker tell me I should be ashamed of myself, kind of takes the fun out of the whole experience. Isn’t that where the landed clubs should come in- where we can be naked and relax knowing the environment will not turn hostile on us? The landed clubs were often formed at a time and place where going naked in public got you imprisoned, but as long as there are bigots in society there will surely be a role for them, so maybe more youngsters should support them in their changing role and be thankful that they chiseled a niche in a hostile textile world in which nudism survived and can be enjoyed, albeit with boundaries.

          • Aye, those were religious choices with roots in ancient dogma. A particular interpretation of Genesis led to nudity being considered sinful.

            A belief that sexuality is sinful except to create children led to prohibition of very many consensual sex acts. A bible verse about not letting men lie with men nor women lie with women added extreme prejudice towards gays.

            If we truly want to realize freedom of religion, all those laws have to go.

            Marijuana was a bit more complicated but it ended up in the same bucket as heroin. It was an easy target because it was something most white people didn’t do. At the end of alcohol prohibition, law enforcement needed something else to do. That and the wood pulp industry was terrified that hemp made better paper then wood pulp. Marijuana became the new demon on the street.

            The government started pumping out propaganda like this and people (who still believed in the government back then) swallowed it hook, line and sinker.


  8. The more we have events like the World Naked Bike Ride, the “Bare” to Breakers, and such, the less horrified people will be at the sight of a nude person.

    As to rights… at some fundamental level we already have all the “rights” we’ll ever have. It is just that we aren’t yet free to exercise them. The government may not recognize them. The government may pay lip service to them but find ways to subvert them. The government may really accept them but individuals may deny them. “Gaining a right” doesn’t mean the government created that right, it means government recognizes and protects that right. It also means that a large enough proportion of the general population tolerates the behavior that the risk of violence from private citizens is minimal.

    In terms of the quest for human rights there is nothing special about gaining your rights as a nudist. It is no different in philosophy or strategy or tactics from being gay or being black or being a witch or being a communist. Whether you chose to be them or they are genetic is irrelevant.

    The relevant question is whether these behaviors somehow violate another person’s rights. It would be very difficult indeed to demonstrate a “right” not to have people like you sharing the world.

    That is the true nature of freedom – not needing to explain oneself. The minute someone asks, “Why do you have to blah blah blah?” they are denying your right to do something.

    “Why do you have to murder or steal or brutalize?” is a question about violating another person’s rights.

    “Why do you have to violate my sense of aesthetics?” is a whole different game.

    Why do you have to drink at the whites only drinking fountain? Why don’t you drink instead of smoking pot? Why do you have to hold hands in public? Why do you have to believe in such an objectionable political or religious philosophy? You could easily choose to do otherwise! Drink at your own fountain. Stay in your own neighborhood. Keep your thoughts to yourself. Don’t make us see your public display of affection. Chemically induce relaxation how I want instead of how you want.

    As long as you are kept separate, as long as you are not free to be yourself outside your designated area, you are in a ghetto. Even if you pay a membership fee and it is comfortable and well appointed and you only go out on the weekends for recreation, a ghetto is still a ghetto.

    If some old lady calls the police because she saw your willy, so what? It’s the job of the police to tell her that it is not an offense and then get onto the job of protecting us from rapists and murderers and thieves and people who would prevent you from freeing your willy. It isn’t your job to have to defend yourself. If the police then hassled you, it just means the struggle for freedom must continue.

    If you daren’t tell at least family and friends about being a nudie, then you are in the closet as surely as any gay ever was.

    I don’t expect nudity is going to be accepted as just another fashion choice any time soon. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight to expand the times and places where it is tolerated. More beaches. More areas on public land. More public events. At least get women the right to be top-free -it will make the next step easier. Tolerance plus time will eventually become acceptance


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