Musings about the Terminology of Social Nudity

Musings about the Terminology of Social Nudity

We got into a discussion the other day because we had decided to add The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society to our list of promising nudists blogs for 2020. The other party was correct. This blog has very little to do with nudism or naturism. They don’t talk about nudism or the different aspects of it. They don’t talk about naturist resorts or nude beaches. There is a huge case of gender-inequality. Basically, it’s just a group of women who get nude or topless together. Although their blog is largely non-sexual, in one of their latest posts they do talk about the erotic side of nudity and even about orgies.

 

Everyone who has just read this first paragraph will agree with our friend that this blog has nothing to do with nudism at all and that we’ve made a mistake adding them to our list. Then the question arises: “if they’re not a nudist blog, then what are they?”.
We can’t say that it’s a sexual blog because 95% of their posts are non-sexual.
It’s has nothing to do with swinging either.
A feminist or female-liberation blog might be an option, but where do we put the social nudity in that picture?
We have a serious terminology issue here.

Labels: Love ’em or hate ’em

Naked Wanderings started as a naturist blog because naturism was pretty much the only term we knew for our nude lifestyle. Soon we figured out that this term was narrowing us down. We’ve met people with whom we identified a lot, but called themselves nudists. Although we love the equality when everyone’s naked, we also recognize the advantages of clothing optional. Once we even visited a sensual resort, to find out whether we could fit in as “just” naturists, and had a pretty great time there.

 

It didn’t take long before the labels started to bother us a lot. Why would we want to stereotype our lifestyle when we feel that there’s no label that includes our complete experience? That day (long-time followers might remember) we decided to stop writing about naturists or nudists and switched to “nudies” instead. It sounds fun and playful, doesn’t carry the weight that the established terms have and most of all it gives our readers the chance to identify with it. No matter if you call yourself a naturist, a nudist or nothing at all, you can find yourself in the term “nudie” if you enjoy time in the nude once in a while.

 

We thought it was an excellent idea. But it wasn’t. The only thing it did was create even more confusion than the established terminology already did. We soon realized that to find our spot(s) in the social nudity spectrum, the terminology is a necessity.

The social nudity spectrum

Another discussion we had recently was when we wrote a blog post about the different types of social nudity, and included swinging. The horror! Especially on Reddit we got the full blast. How dare we? After all those decades of trying to promote non-sexual nudity, there’s this couple so-called naturist bloggers who just mentioned naturists, nudists, and swingers within the same breath. Even worse, we had put them all under the same umbrella of “social nudity”.

 

For those people, naturism/nudism is the only form of social nudity. In a world in which the large majority of humanity believes that you can only be socially nude to have sex, these people say that you can only be socially nude when sex is completely out of the question.

 

The terminology backfired and posed the question: What is social nudity? If you believe that social nudity equals naturism/nudism, then you’re absolutely right that swinging has no place in this spectrum. But what do we do then with all those other reasons to get nude together with someone else? While lots of people complained that the social nudity spectrum in that blog post was too wide, we actually felt like it was too narrow.
Where do we put people who shower together after sports?
How about the girls getting dressed together before the party?
The family in which occasional nudity inside the house is not a problem?
The group of teenagers going skinny dipping after a couple of beers?
A club of New York women getting nude together and apparently engage in an orgy now and then?

Your place in the spectrum is not the whole spectrum

It’s easy for us to ignore the things we don’t like, don’t know or aren’t interested in. Have you ever heard about fierljeppen? It’s a mainly Dutch sport, similar to pole-vaulting, where the goal is to cross a large body of water by the use of a long pole. To many, this will sound like a children’s game or something in the “hold my beer”-category. Yet there are quite some people who practice this sport on a regular basis. For them, fierljeppen might have a more prominent place in the sports spectrum than soccer, baseball or hockey.

 

Analyzing the term “social nudity” isn’t particularly hard. It just has two words in it. It’s social, meaning that there are other people involved with whom there’s some interaction and it’s nudity, meaning that it’s without clothes. Within this large spectrum, we can find lots of subcategories. There are naturism and nudism, but also clothing optional. There’s swinging, communal showers, home nudism, online nudism and even the exchange of dick pics could be called a form of social nudity. Also, monogamous sex is social nudity. Or a late-night half-drunken skinny dip or a group of topless women reading pulp in Central Park.

Expectation is everything

When you ask a nudist what the plans are, it’s pretty unlikely that she will answer “social nudity”. Neither will the swinger or the fierljepping team about to enter the communal shower. Yet they will all engage in a form of social nudity. Here comes the importance of further terminology (or labels if you will) again. The nudist won’t be too happy if her nudist getaway appears to be in a swinger club. Nor in the shower of the local fierljepping team.

 

It’s all about expectations. Last year we visited Bare Oaks Family Naturist Resort in Canada and Desire Riviera Maya Pearl resort in Mexico. Both resorts could hardly be any further from each other in the social nudity spectrum. Bare Oaks is a naturist camping, nude obligatory, strongly promoting the naturist values and very family-friendly. Desire is a clothing-optional luxury all-inclusive sensual hotel. We enjoyed our time at both resorts because in both cases we knew exactly what to expect.

 

For the same reason, our visit to Cap d’Agde wasn’t the best experience. The name “naturist village” tricked us into expecting a genuinely naturist place while it turned out to be something completely different. Similarly, we like both Italian and Indian food, yet we would be quite disappointed walking into an Italian restaurant and find only biryani and curry on the menu. Even if that restaurant would happen to be in Italy and prepare the curries with only Italian ingredients, that doesn’t make curry Italian food. Or at least what we expect Italian food to be.

Who’s in charge of the terminology?

Now comes the difficult part. Who’s to say what is what? Who draws the boundaries between one kind of social nudity and another? Who creates the definition?
If we focus on our main subject, naturism/nudism, we could have a look at the official definition by the International Naturist Federation (INF-FNI):

 

“Naturism/nudism is a way of life in harmony with nature whose activities are not directed towards profit. It is characterized by the practice of common nudity, with the intention of encouraging respect for oneself, respect for others and respect for the environment.”

 

This definition is pretty much as open to interpretation as the bible. One could conclude that swinging perfectly fits within naturism as long as it’s done with respect and no used condoms are thrown in the bushes. On the other hand, most naturist resorts shouldn’t be called “naturist” because they make a profit.

 

Other federations give slightly different definitions. Many include that naturism/nudism is about non-sexual nudity. Others say that naturism/nudism always has to be family-friendly, excluding the growing in popularity adults-only nudist resorts. While some federations put the natural aspect upfront, others focus more on the social nudity itself or the activities. The Dutch federation (NFN) mentions on their website that naturism is something everyone can fill in for their own. They fail to mention with what though.

 

The other day we saw a comment passing by on Twitter by someone complaining that a certain naturist resort isn’t “swinger-friendly”. The world upside down. It seems like there’s still a lot of work to do.

32 thoughts on “Musings about the Terminology of Social Nudity

  1. Since this movement means different to so many people its hard to label. I’m not into what a lot of people post. Not into answering the door with nothing on Shocking the person on the other side.of the door . Taking pictures and posting my anus. Sending someone, anyone a picture of my penis. I do like to skinny dip, walk and hike, ride my bike in the proper location, not into shocking people At all. I enjoy my nude friends who like not to do what we don’t like to do. Thank you for your time and thoughts. Great site.

    1. Be careful with generalizing what you see online. The loudest voices most often don’t represent the majority. In reality, we don’t believe that many nudists open the door nude.

      A couple of days ago, someone called us the “example nudists”. Definitely very flattering, but also very untrue. Most nudists don’t have a blog, don’t post nude pictures on Instagram and don’t travel around the world in search of nudist places. We are promotors of nudism but certainly don’t represent the everyday nudist.

  2. Hello Nick and Lin’s, blessings to you. This is a very interesting post on nudist terminology. I think as we we make our way into creating a society more accepting of nakedness these issues will have to be discussed. I live in Jamaica and while nudity is frowned upon in the wider society, there are still a few nudist friendly resorts that persons can be nude. These range from the world famous Hedonism Resort which is a haven for singers to the more laid back clothing optional Firefly Cottages. Both of these resorts cater mainly to international visitors. I think what will happen is that as each type of nude group gets larger and society gets more accepting of the wide range of nudist activities, the terms that the bigger nude groups use will be more dominant. It’s entirely possible that most Western societies will evolve similarly to how Cap D’Agde is where you have one section of society of mostly swingers, libertines and the like while the other section will have the person’s interested more in non- public- sex nudity, sacred sex and those ideas. I for one would be in the sacred sex section. The reason why it’s now difficult to find an all encompassing word/ term is because nudism in Western societies is still in its infancy and evolving. I think that person’s at the forefront of the movement ought to be the ones to create the terminology and create the society that we want to see. Blessings

    1. When new people with new wishes/expectations/requirements join a lifestyle, two things can happen. Either they create their own label or the existing label evolves. But also when labels evolve, others will feel left out and might create their own label. You can see this today with “naturism” and “nudism”. For us, they basically mean the same thing but there are many others who swear to be a nudist but not a naturist. Or vice versa.

      When it comes to sexual social nudity, the switch to a new terminology is already happening. Some time ago, swingers were often still hiding under the name naturist/nudist. As is still the case at Cap d’Agde. But today they are more and more moving towards terms like “lifestyle”, “sensual” or “liberal”.

    2. Firefly is unfortunately no longer nudist friendly after a change in management/ownership about a year, or so, ago. There is an apartment/condo complex next to Hedonism called Point Village that has a nude/clothing optional adult beach section. That beach is a naturist/nudist type with no sex beach. Rooms can be rented by the week or month some very reasonably.

  3. As always, these subject are always interesting.
    For me its easy, why do ppl like be naked?
    Well .. nudies cause of it self (tho i`ll never understand why) ,and those sexual ones, cause, isnt it easier to have sex when its all set already?
    All that brings me to a point that ,with all these options, ppl will never be set with a therm like this or like that…
    As i said it b4 , when i was a kid, i knew about ppl that like to swim naked, and i heard they call them nudists. I have never ever b4 heard about naturists,nor i even payed attention to any of this till b4 i started to exchange mails with N&L 2-3 years ago or whenever it was already.
    So just by that, to me there is a difference cause nudists are the same as textiles, the only difference is that nudists go to a beach and get nude, everything off of it, is a textile life.
    Naturism is a totaly different story. And to me , these two therms make perfect sence. At the end of the day, if they were the same, they wouldnt have two names.
    As for all the other things, its a oirht048s4t9 subject lol.
    I see many ppl give a bad name (not a Bon Jovi way lol) , to Cap … to me the way i see it (ayayya i know sounds funny for some1 whos not a nudie nor has ever been at a such place to say this) Cap is the most ,you can get whatever u want there kind of place, and in that sence i actually think it should be praised.
    Now, im not sure what its 100% like there, but id say its very similar to what we can see in the Les Textiles movie, that i totaly love btw, the setting looks way cool,gives a summer vibe spec this time of the year.
    Anyhow, considering that most ppl do connect nude with sex, as long as there will be ppl that want one but not the other, there will never be peace with the therms, nor with accepting this or that. But isnt that democracy? I mean, if u vote and the one u voted for lost, .. what are u gonna do about it? Move out of the country? Shoot the one that won? Fist fight with the other ones? So many things in life arent the way we want it or like it ,yet we live with it or by it or together with it, why should this omg no sex or yes sex be different then?
    Theres another thing ,and its a general thing not just with nudism/naturism, altho it does sound more hypocrite with later considering that ..well.. nudies are suppose to be more “open minded” right.. those “family friendly” and such therms ..if they say that naturism is for everyone, how come then theres a “family friendly” and i guess the oposite of it, non family friendly one? I know what the answer would be by 99% of ppl to that , but thats not an answer, and not the answer im looking for, thats an excuse, id like a real answer.
    The truth is , that many ppl , eventho they`ll never say it out loud, cause its not socially acceptable (omg my kids will see that) or by even some other things , im sure many ppl wont mind seing ppl here or there playing around on a beach or something.. ya ,it would prolly be odd to see it first time, by the 3rd time they all woudlnt pay attention even anymore. It will/would become normal, and normal is not good nor bad, its just a thing that is around and ppl got use to it,and many ppl actually dont understand the meaning of that word, cause they think that when something is normal, then that that is a good thing .. totaly wrong to think of it that way.

    Its the barriers ppl put up them selfs that make problems. And most times, they didnt even put them up, you came to this world with those barriers already upped by some other ppl way before your time ,so you wouldnt know differently anyway,cause to you that is the normal.
    As they say here .. for every solution, theres a problem.

    1. The why question does indeed sound like the perfect way to determine why type of social nudity would be perfect for a certain person. And for many, it will work fine. But then there’s also a group where the answer will include “and” or “but”.
      “I like the feeling of freedom and I also feel a sexual sensation”.
      “I like the equal tan but I don’t like going to the bar nude”.

      Then the answer will be in the action rather than the intention. It doesn’t matter if you go to a naturist place and feel sexual sensations, as long as you don’t disturb others with it.
      At nude obligatory places, you will be expected to be nude everywhere. If you don’t like to be nude in the bar, you can still go to such a place and not go to the bar.

  4. You are very bravely jumping straight into the world of semantics. Trying to figure out what we mean when we use words. Any words. I think the answer is that words mean what you want them to mean to you, but they won’t mean that to anyone else, and you’ll probably change your mind anyway. Academic careers have been built on this confusion.
    Just to add to the confusion. I spend most of the summer sailing my boat in the nude. I’m usually on my own. Am I a nudist /naturist if I’m on my own? Asocial nudity?
    Have a wonderful New Year and keep on blogging.

    1. That is exactly the difficulty. Words mean different things to different people. In your case it hardly matters, you’re free to call yourself whatever you want and to give your own description to whatever term you choose. Because it’s just you, you make the rules. Only when it becomes a social thing, it’s important that there’s a consensus on the term. If you invite 10 friends on a naturist sailing trip, it’ll have to be clear what you mean with “naturist”.

      1. 10 on my boat would have to be nudist. No room for clothing. But as you say, in my boat it’s my rules. I spend more and more time nude afloat. I find that most people take no notice, and one or two strip off as well. I’ve never had an adverse comment

          1. They really do! I sail in and around Poole Harbour on England’s south coast. It is about 20 square kilometres of landlocked water, with a single access to the sea which is just 400m wide. Hundreds of boats sail in and out every day in the summer. I always smile when I see so many incoming sailors crouching down and then jiggling upright. I know they are pulling their pants up. I find it much easier to wear a Turkish hamam towel as a sarong, if needed at all.
            Studland beach, England’s largest nude beach is just outside the Harbour entrance, and a great number of the boats anchor there on a sunny day. I think sailing and nakedness just go together perfectly. You must try it.

  5. Hello to all my nude friends Doug the nudest here with a comment on what is being a nudest and what is being a naturalist it doesn’t matter how you view yourself as long as you are not wearing any clothes not wearing any clothes is a beautiful thing a true nudest doesn’t pay attention to what other people do or say about them

  6. Clubs and resorts need to do more than use one word to describe their establishment, they can’t say nudist or lifestyle without going into detail about what those words mean. What each individual person labels themselves as is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It’s as you stated, it’s all about expectations and if the guests make no effort in learning what to expect, then any surprises are on them. Hopefully they didn’t bring the kids though. We label ourselves nudist because we enjoy being nude… at home, swimming, hiking if possible, socially or alone. We think it’s natural, so we could also be naturists. I do think that there should be no money in naturism.

  7. M y Wife & Enjoy being Au-Natural and we have Traveled & vacationed about 15 times to the Hidden Beach resort in Riveria-Maya Mexico. We look expand our Nudism beyond that of Mexico.
    Hopefully your Blog will give more ideas as to where we can go & enjoy being Naked with others.

    Terry n Linda

  8. Excellent post and discussion. I want to suggest that while these different terms are semantic in nature – such as the perceived differences between “naturist” and “nudist,” there are also different life choices involved in the activities we name. I’m sorry there isn’t a more clearly agreed-upon distinction between “nudist” and “naturist,” since I feel there are truly different mindsets involved, and it is useful when language helps us with the distinctions. I consider myself both a nudist AND a naturist, while I see who find themselves one or the other but not both. Meanwhile, one can have an open mind about sex and be a nudist/naturist, or not, and someone might go to a swinger club and be socially nude for the sake of group sex, but not be a nudist/naturist in any other way.

    So I think it is not unreasonable to keep an open mind and yet stick to the view that sexuality has no intrinsic relation to naturism, or vice-versa, while accepting that those lines may be crossed at will should one choose. Much in the way, I consider myself a naturist whether I am gardening or not, and while I prefer to be nude while gardening the act of caring for plants is not intrinsically part of my being a naturist. Gardening and sex share the fact that one can be nude or (at least partially) dressed during the activity. It’s only that we have a nude –> sex relation in our minds that makes us relate sex and nudity while we don’t do so with gardening.

    By the way, I find two of the most powerful lines in here to be “Your place in the spectrum is not the whole spectrum” – fantastic reminder that one’s own perspective doesn’t define things for everyone – and in a reply to a comment above, “When new people with new wishes/expectations/requirements join a lifestyle, two things can happen. Either they create their own label or the existing label evolves”, an important example of how language evolves whether we want it to or not. Thanks for a great topic!

    1. Ya but this last thing .. things shouldnt be like that…
      What naturism means to me, should be the exact same thing it means to u ,or any other word/therm , otherwise its not naturism ,its just someting unnamed.. i mean, why do we have name for things then anyway?.. whats the point?
      The words nude nudism, nature naturism come from two totaly different origin words,hence the meaning of them cannot be the same.
      To me it should be easy, nudist or liberal nudist, naturist or liberal naturist, hence the liberal means that the person/s are not stuck up if they or their entire family see ppl bang somewhere around a beach or resort(and im not even talking about swingers, but regular ppl that just got horny and … ) ,the only question is, should such places be marked as liberal naturist resorts so ppl know what they perhaps can expect, or not ,having in mind the definition that says that anyone can be one, regardless of how they look ,what sex they are, or their age.
      So having said that, what if a couple with their kids wanna go to a liberal naturist beach, should they be allowed in at all ,knowing what can be expected? If they wouldnt be allowed ,then is naturism really for everyone?
      Should they even think about going to such places as a family? And who gets to decide that?
      Of course, this is my view about these 2 words, adding the liberal part as in a contrary to the word conservative,mainly of course in the sexual way.
      But the point is that a definition a meaning should be one for everyone, cause if not, any word or meaning is meaningless…

      1. What differentiates humans from all other animals is that we also have a conceptual reality. Lots of things that are very important to us are basically nothing but ideas on which everyone agrees. Countries, for example, everyone agrees that some imaginary line divides one country from another. Or companies. Even Microsoft and Google are nothing but a couple of papers that contain certain agreements.

        This conceptual thinking has given us world power, but the thing is that it’s not touchable. An apple tree is an apple tree and if you don’t agree with that, you’re just wrong. Concepts work differently and different people can have slightly different opinions about the concept. And also, concepts can change. For the last centuries, borders have been moving continuously, making countries larger or smaller, creating new countries and making others disappear. Naturism/nudism are also concepts on which the majority agrees what they mean, but some have slightly different opinions about what it is exactly.

        We very much dislike the terms “liberal nudism” and “liberal naturism” because it’s hijacking an existing concept but violating one of its fundamentals (non-sexual nudity). It’s like calling Croatia “Serbia at the coast”. In both cases there is something mutual, for naturism/nudism and sexual nudity it’s the communal nudity, for Serbia and Croatia it’s the Yugoslav history. Yet both concepts have become very distinct and deserve very distinct terms as well.

        1. Well the liberal thing was literally a thing that i made up / came to my mind as i was typing the message.
          However it is not hijacking,thats why theres that liberal part added to it.
          You have mentioned many times before what what is naturism this kind, that kind .. to me thats more hijacking then what i wrote.
          Btw, happy new year.

          1. In fact, it’s not something you made up 🙂
            Unfortunately, the liberal term is quite often used, but lately it’s starting to become a term on its own, just “liberal” instead of liberal naturism/nudism. Which is a good thing.

            But of course it’s hijacking, you can’t just take a term and add something to it which is completely contradictory.
            Basketball is not handfootball.
            Rock music is not guitar-dance music.
            A pizza with vegetables and meat is not a meatlover veggie pizza.
            etc.

        2. Well ok , i didnt know, tho maybe i invented my view of liberal naturism tho, but anyhow, just the word liberal it self is also hijacked then if they use it for that , isnt it?

          “you can’t just take a term and add something to it which is completely contradictory”

          Ok now this is hypocricy .. why not?
          How come todays naturism as u like to promote it isnt all about “old” boring ppl playing cards, but drunken parties n stuff? Isnt that hijacking too? You take something and turn it to something else while using the same nametag?

          1. There is a grammatical difference. “naturism” is a noun, while “liberal” (in this case) is used to give an extra description to that noun.
            it’s like “vegan food” and “healthy”.
            The thing is, the vegans are not going to protest when someone talks about healthy vegan food because veganism is partly about living healthy. Liberal naturism, on the other hand, won’t be appreciated by naturists because it changes naturism into something it’s not. Just like greasy vegan food won’t be appreciated much by vegans.

            The naturism we promote today goes indeed further than old people playing cards. But it’s not about drunken parties either. Is that hijacking? We don’t think so. Because it doesn’t change anything about the original meaning of naturism, only about the way it’s practiced.

    2. It’s important to realize that naturism in the early days was a very strict lifestyle. It was all about health, the health of being in nature and the health of absorbing sunlight. That’s why many naturist clubs even today are still called “sun clubs”. Additionally, alcohol and nicotine were forbidden and in many cases even eating meat.

      Once this lifestyle got a bit off the ground, other people started to realize the joy of being nude among others, but for different reasons and often they didn’t agree with all the rules of naturism. That’s where nudism came up.

      With the years, the rules within naturism got looser, we don’t think that there’s a single naturist resort left that doesn’t serve alcohol for example. So also the difference between nudism and naturism disappeared. The two terms who were very distinct at first became pretty much the same.

      Now that sexual social nudity is on the rise, the question is whether it will remain separated from naturism and nudism or if again there will be a mix. Only the future can tell.

      1. Well as i said it ur self, it has changed, now to me the question is, then how come it still be called the same and why?
        To me ,naturism shouldnt even have anything to do with if ur naked or not ..
        I have to and always will come to the same words … i understand u dont mind sexual nudity,sensual nudie resorts, but u want it to be separated.
        Why?
        Again as i said b4 , to me its the same as saying, i dont mind gay ppl at all, but i dont wanna see them making out in front of me or holding hands and such..but lets imagine this scenario ..
        Imagine if sexual stuff becomes a norm in every nude resort,beach,club,.. would u still be a nudie?

        1. It’s a matter of taste.
          There are people who go to bars with dance music, others who go to bars with rock music and others who go to a bar which plays both kinds of music.
          We could ask why we need bars that only play rock or dance and not create only bars with both types of music.

          The comparison you make with gays is pure hypocrisy, but it’s different. In this case, it’s rather saying “I don’t mind gay people but I don’t like to go to gay bars”. This is again a matter of choice. We know gays who don’t like to go to gay bars. Similarly, we don’t mind Muslims or Christians, but we don’t go to churches or mosques either.
          There’s something for both, and problems arise when muslims go to a church and start complaining. Or vice versa.

          In our perfect world, people have different tastes and it’s great when all tastes can be fulfilled.

          Also, we know that some naturists/nudists like to compare with the gay movement, but for the large majority this is not correct. For most nudists/naturists, our lifestyle is still a choice. It’s much better to compare with vegetarians or vegans.
          There are vegetarians who don’t mind going to restaurants where meat is served but just eat a salad. Just like there are nudists who don’t mind going to sexual resorts but don’t join the public sex.
          But you can’t go to a vegetarian restaurant and start eating meat.

          1. We talked about this b4 few times … again as i said, u will see in life ,and hear so many things u dont like or even hate, ..and? What are we gonna do about it? Make things be just the way we want and like it ,and ban everything else just cause we dont like it? Its like saying ,i dont mind muslims at all , i have nothing against them, but i like them in Syria Avgan ,not in my country..
            Im more then once confused about many of ur posts cause in one hand u want to promote freedom, tolerance, open mindness, but at same time ,we dont want this ,we dont want that, they should go there ,they shouldnt do this… that dont sound tolerant to me at all..
            Dont get me wrong, im not calling u a nazzi or something lol, im just confused to say the least, about what tolerance and open mind really means to you/naturists/nudis….fuck it…to everyone to say it best.
            Maybe im wrong but to me it sounds like a segregation tolerance, and thats basicly the Syria Avgan thing i mentioned tbh.

          2. We don’t want to ban anything. In fact, we like the uprise of “official” swingers resorts. These resorts have always existed but were often hiding behind the name naturism. Now they’re stepping out, creating their own places and that’s great.
            It’s like the example we sometimes give about Playa de Amor in Zipolite. Technically we should complain about it because once again it’s a piece of nude beach which has been taken by swingers. But in this case, we know that the main beach is large enough, so if they want their own private beach away from the rest, we’re happy for them. As long as it’s known that that beach isn’t a naturist beach anymore but a swingers beach.

            Tolerance and open-mindedness doesn’t mean that we have to lose our values or give up the stuff we already have. As mentioned before, we have absolutely nothing against swingers (or anyone else) but when they come to naturist places, they have to play by the rules.

            You can be the most openminded person in the world. If a soccer player grabs the ball by the hand, starts running and throws it in the goal, you’re not going to say “come on people, let’s be openminded, if that guy prefers to throw instead of to kick let him do so”.

          3. “These resorts have always existed but were often hiding behind the name naturism”
            Im sure its like that, for many reasons i totaly understand why, one is to be accepted, the other, ..maybe in some places, countries ,things like that arent legal while nudism is, so its a great cover.
            Now they are prolly as u say stepping out, cause ,i guess ppl got use to it more or less, its in a process or being normalised.
            Well im sorry but i guess then that tolerance in that sence really is what i wrote, a segregated one,hence saying that in all honesty , i dont believe there really is such thing as tolerance, its only a thing where i say.. i dont mind this or that UNTIL …… untill is from 1-10. 0 is total opression, 10 is some would call it anarchy, or lets say social anarchy. I have yet to see someone be a 10,but saying im open minded/tollerant level 3, while the other is level 7 ,cant be the same thing,hence it cannot be called the same either. You said it ur selfe with that naturist ,liberal-naturist chat.
            But ya its also interesting how u dont like Cap yet u like that Mexico place, and its basicly close to being a mini version of Cap, – the facilities/infrastructure they have in Cap.
            I mean, its not like ppl are having orgies all over the place in Cap is it?

          4. You could indeed put tolerance on a 0 to 10 scale where 0 and 1 are complete narcissists who don’t like any other ideas than their own and 9 and 10 would be the people that are constantly run over. Both extremes are not the best cases.
            But being open-minded is different. And it’s actually fairly easy to explain. The majority of naturists are quite openminded about who you are, what you look like, whether you’re male, female or anything else, what religion you have, etc. But you have to stick to the foundations of our lifestyle. We are quite intolerant when people try to reform our lifestyle into something it’s not.

            About Zipo, it’s definitely not like Cap at all, in many different aspects. You’ll have to check out both places yourself one day 😉

          5. Lol well that someday will never happen im sure lol .. nor im a nudie ,nor could i ever afford anything remotly similar.
            I still dont agree with the open mind thing.. having an open mind means, something u havent done, but ur not gonna judge just cause of so,and may will try it or not ,but still wont judge it.
            Tolerance is more aimed at things u already know that u dont really like or.. just simply something u dont care about or as i said even like or are for ,but u`ll tolerate it because u are in the described position in someone elses eyes, and u cannot expect ppl to respect/accept u just cause crossed their line, if u dont do that same thing towards someone else that crossed “your” line.
            Of course, the eternal question remains .. who gets to decide and with what rights, where those lines end.
            Jesus.. i sound smart sometimes lol ..

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